(someone erased my original captioning, but it read “The Disney Princesses tell it like it is.”)
Great little comic on (lacking) diversity in Disney media
So many conflicting ideas on my head about this.
Against: FUCK OFF! IT’S A CHILDREN’S FILM AND BEFORE REPUNZEL WE HAD TWO DECADES OF POC PRINCESSES! TWO. DECADES. Also, both films are set in places without poc in them anyway :/ sorry. Also, merida is a Pixar Hero(ine) NOT a Disney Princess, and I will argue that point to the grave.
For: yeah, poc should be more represented in all media. Why go back on two decades worth of progress? Regardless of fantasy setting, some historical accuracy could at least be attempted.
What Jonny said. One girl on here was hitting a rage cause there were no poc in Brave. Brave is set in 10th century Scotland. There were no poc there at that time. Relax your balls and enjoy the movie.
going back through Brave stuff posted months or years ago is amazing. Just look at the high quality of commentary people added to pictures that blatantly address their point. Like how do you even manage to do that
(also “two decades”… what. As if white characters weren’t there in huge numbers at the same time? Also, simply having characters throughout a span of time doesn’t mean a group is represented enough… as is obvious via many recent films…)
The pictures aren’t addressing my viewpoint for Brave, though. It is historically accurate to not show PoC in the movie because there weren’t any PoC living there until the UK began slavery with people from India and then eventually Africa, and Pixar got condemned on Tumblr for keeping to that. Surely if you feel adding a PoC character is an obligation and not because they’re a part of the story is just as racist as deliberately leaving them out or making them white when they should be included in the story?
And you can’t compare the historical (in)accuracy with the use of magic (a character being transformed into a bear) seriously, how can anyone think that’s a valid comparison?
it actually did address your point but you are, I guess, so sure that slavery was the only way that PoC could get there besides an extensive historical worldwide trade network originating out of both the continents of Africa and Asia, that you didn’t bother to look up the point indicated in image 3. I honestly find your ignorance intentional because I know damn well that people have replied to your reblog with the blog medieval PoC, which, if you search through, has referenced Brave and Scotland multiple times.
Your complete lack of understanding of the past is exactly the reason that diversity is necessary- you can’t imagine a world where PoC might be present as non-slaves, as people with agency outside of what the British empire dictated, because the media you’ve been exposed to throughout your life has never presented that to you as an option…
I also, no, don’t see how including PoC, even if it’s done as an “obligation” because you can’t wrap your mind around them being a natural part of a story, is as racist as often excluding them or misrepresenting them in media. It is likely that certain people will continue to see their presence as “an obligation” so long as white narratives continue to be seen as an acceptable default…
I’m also not sure why you think chameleons and magical bears are somehow acceptable inclusions when PoC aren’t even though they actually could be there historically but this has been gone over so many times like it’s seriously right there in the images that idk why it was even put as a point.
I went ahead and bolded the parts of these responses that once again show that “historical accuracy” is only important to white people when it comes to casting MODERN MEDIA and excluding people of color from films.
Despite the historical fact that there is documented presence of people of color in Scotland since Classical times, through the Middle Ages, and into modern history.
During the Roman occupation of Scotland, there were over 260 camps of Roman soldiers, the archeological remains of which are visible from the air. The sheer amount of manpower sent into Scotland to try and subdue it grows ever larger as more investigations into these sites is conducted.
In fact, the rather famous disappearance of the IX Hispana Roman Legion is still being investigated, but analysis of primary sources shows that after a bloody defeat, the survivors may have just become part of the population of Scotland. All of this happened around 100 A.D.
Hispania, the origin of the Legion, was under Carthiginian Influence until the Punic Wars almost 100 years later, and on this map you can see the pre-Punic War sphere of Carthaginian influence:
In fact, I recently posted an interactive map that demonstrates just how easy and fast travel was in the days of the Roman Empire.
Going to the Middle Ages, we have Kenneth III, King of Scots from 997 to 1005 , also known as “Kenneth the Brown” whose race is still tiresomely debated in certain circles. There is no conclusive “proof” of his race because the racial categories we have today did not exist then. And of course, the former Romans living and working in Scotland at the time would have no written record of their activities or appearance because no one cared.
Once we get into the High Medieval and “Renaissance” period, written records of many specifically Black people in important royal circles. These records are a part of the UK government’s accessible to the public website:
James was a popular, fun-loving king with many interests. Many Black Moors were present at his court. Some worked as servants or (possibly) slaves, but others seem to have been invited guests or musicians. We know that he courted Margaret with lute and clavichord recitals and took her out hunting and playing sports.
After their marriage, the king’s Lord High Treasurer’s accounts provide numerous entries to show how much he enjoyed lively entertainment, employing foreign minstrels from Italy and elsewhere. King James was generous to all kinds of people, including Black Moors, as the following entries from the Treasurer’s accounts demonstrate:
- To celebrate Shrove Tuesday in 1505, several Africans including a 'taubronar' (drummer) and a choreographer were present in Edinburgh. Twelve dancers (including Italians) performed in specially made black-and-white costumes costing £13 2s 10d. Was this the origin of Morris (Moorish) dancing?
- In 1504-5 the ‘Moryen’ taubronar was paid 28 shillings to allow his taubroun (drum) to be painted.
- James bought a horse at a cost of £4 4s for this drummer, who accompanied him when he toured his northern domains.
Moor women were also mentioned in the Treasurer’s accounts. It is unclear whether or not they were servants, since they were showered with items such as gowns of satin, ribbons, slippers and gloves, paid for by the king.
Entries that refer to Moor women include:
- 'Blak Elene' or 'Elen More' was given five French crowns in 1512.
- A ‘blak madin’ who attended Queen Margaret was given four-and-a-quarter ells (just over five yards) of French russet.
- 'Blak Margaret' was given a gown costing 48s in 1513.
- 'Two blak ladies' staying at the Scottish Court were presented with 10 French crowns as a New Year gift at a cost of £7.
- In 1527, one item simply said ’ to Helenor, the blak moir - 60 shillings’ .
You can see that the primary sources are included:
I think it’s worthwhile to ask ourselves, why is bigscarytiger so very confident in asserting:
It is historically accurate to not show PoC in the movie because there weren’t any PoC living there until the UK began slavery with people from India and then eventually Africa…
This is the effect that the history taught in our classrooms has on real people.
People who feel supremely confident in saying, “you can’t have anyone who looks like you in our movie because you didn’t exist, and when you did it was just as slaves”.
Whitewashing history affects the present and the future.
How about we just sit back and enjoy the FICTIONAL MOVIES created for Entertainment, not History Class. These are both good movies that took a lot of time and skill, so instead of arguing about all this stuff and degrading the creators, appreciate the hard work put in this.
The lack of representation of people of color in popular media leads to a lack of empathy for people of color that directly impacts our lives:
Silverstein reviews research that shows that the racial empathy gap has real world consequences: undertreatment of pain (even in children) and, yes, harsher sentences for African Americans convicted of crimes.
how quickly the white people went from “it’s historically inaccurate to have poc” to “who cares about HISTORY it’s FICTION” with like no self-awareness
I’m going to write a story set in the heart of Africa, and it’s going to have nothing but blonde-haired blue-eyed white people and there’s absolutely nothing you morons can do about it.
Afrikaners. Technically historically possible, as they were all Dutch.
Also, this whole debate is stupid.
keep breaking out the hypotheticals, it’s not like Tarzan is an actual Disney movie that is set in Africa, one of the very few, and yet manages to have a 100% white cast
but of course there is no racism in deciding which stories get told, you are totally correct, everyone else is wrong to care
also like, sad lives… sorry if you don’t see at least the value in *discussion* that clues people in to how white washed history has been. Like literally… you see the problem here as being a hypothetical Africa movie, rather than the actual people asserting in this thread that “the only way any of these people could be in Europe is as slaves.” That is sad
uhm, yeah, while we’re on the subject of getting upset at Brave for not having PoC, how about we just talk about the Frog Princess and be happy?